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JTW

State Championships

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Today was one of the better days in  recent history for the finals!!

Couple of studs got their first titles in 5A,  Soriano (what a match at 126) and Shultz! Easley has their first ever state champion.  Rock Hill had 3 state champions for the first time in Coach Beard’s tenure. 

So many close matches.... OT’s,  double OT’s, 1 point wins.  Just in 5A.  

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Probably so Jason but in case it wasn't.. David was definitely the most deserving of MOW ...in 5a and probably all classifications for that matter ...he's a stud...and my kids don't even wrestle 5a ...lol

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47 minutes ago, Chstiger99 said:

Rock Hill was definitely not robbed of a MOW ...the most deserving kid in 5a definitely won the MOW

This used to be a safe place for sarcasm and pettiness.  Also, I am not hiding behind a screen name, just click the profile.  You merely adopted the screen name.  I was born in it. Molded by it.

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9 hours ago, JTW said:

Byrnes won the first annual SButler 5A championship trophy.  

Kidding SButler haha 

Ha. I’m not taking the Bait! Allot of good, exciting matches, some upsets, near upsets, and unfortunately some matches that could have been better had the officiating not try to take center stage. 

 

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The officiating was consistant except for the ref with head so big that can be seen from the moon, think he's from the charleston area and he is terrible at calling stalls.  He calls the stalls when the wrestlers are actually working hard to maintain control and position. Wtf is he thinking.  College stalls aren't even called as quick.  There's someting to be said Averages are set by extremes.  He sets the average for out of control with the call.  He was the lead ref at the 5a duals.

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16 hours ago, Worldwide said:

The officiating was consistant except for the ref with head so big that can be seen from the moon, think he's from the charleston area and he is terrible at calling stalls.  He calls the stalls when the wrestlers are actually working hard to maintain control and position. Wtf is he thinking.  College stalls aren't even called as quick.  There's someting to be said Averages are set by extremes.  He sets the average for out of control with the call.  He was the lead ref at the 5a duals.

I have a lot of issues with the officiating this weekend but first I'd say that the buddy system for the refs did seem to work. The duos did seem to look to their partner to confirm calls often, and were generally working well on the standard, black and white stuff (out of bounds, takedown calls, NF, etc.)

As you said, the general terribleness of a few skewed the mean for the rest but those issues were glaring. Particularly, 5A 120, 132, 145 and HWT were nothing short of a mismanaged disaster. 120 and HWT were textbook examples of exactly what a referee should not do with regards to interjecting themselves directly into the match. For those that watched, I think we'd all agree that the pace of the 120 final was probably the highest of the night, with neither guy take so much as a step backwards. That didn't stop both guys from being hit multiple times when action took them OB. 132 featured maybe the most confusing stall call I've seen in my entire life (other than a 3rd place match where the ref hit the aggressor for a stall saying that he wasn't trying to finish his leg attacks and thus warranted a stall) when the top man was attempting, successfully, to turn the bottom mans shoulders with a power half but was banged for stalling for riding the hip, a position they had been in the entire first period. 145 was just a genuine inconsistent mess with a position being a stall in one sequence and a stalemate about 25 seconds later. If you're able to go back and watch HWT for yourself, please do, because I can't really describe the ending in a way that does the confusion justice. 

These were the big issues I saw in the 5A finals. There was of course small stuff throughout the weekend that speaks to the lack of situational awareness that you'd hope a lot of these guys would have ironed out by now but didn't seem to in that moment at least. 

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39 minutes ago, ParTerre57 said:

I have a lot of issues with the officiating this weekend but first I'd say that the buddy system for the refs did seem to work. The duos did seem to look to their partner to confirm calls often, and were generally working well on the standard, black and white stuff (out of bounds, takedown calls, NF, etc.)

As you said, the general terribleness of a few skewed the mean for the rest but those issues were glaring. Particularly, 5A 120, 132, 145 and HWT were nothing short of a mismanaged disaster. 120 and HWT were textbook examples of exactly what a referee should not do with regards to interjecting themselves directly into the match. For those that watched, I think we'd all agree that the pace of the 120 final was probably the highest of the night, with neither guy take so much as a step backwards. That didn't stop both guys from being hit multiple times when action took them OB. 132 featured maybe the most confusing stall call I've seen in my entire life (other than a 3rd place match where the ref hit the aggressor for a stall saying that he wasn't trying to finish his leg attacks and thus warranted a stall) when the top man was attempting, successfully, to turn the bottom mans shoulders with a power half but was banged for stalling for riding the hip, a position they had been in the entire first period. 145 was just a genuine inconsistent mess with a position being a stall in one sequence and a stalemate about 25 seconds later. If you're able to go back and watch HWT for yourself, please do, because I can't really describe the ending in a way that does the confusion justice. 

These were the big issues I saw in the 5A finals. There was of course small stuff throughout the weekend that speaks to the lack of situational awareness that you'd hope a lot of these guys would have ironed out by now but didn't seem to in that moment at least. 

Same exact position in the 5A 152 semi match Friday.  Top wrestler was trying to work a power half while the opponent never lifted his head from the mat. Hit the aggressor for 2 stall points. 

 

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Can you guys please explain exactly what happened to the 2 kids from Woodmont esp Schock, I think it was that lost on points? We were sitting across the room at the AAA mat. Also, the kid that got pinned from Woodmont, I though that looked like a legit pin but those around us were saying he got screwed? Why not let the kid escape when you're up 13-1?

Also, congrats to our HWT title winner from Pville and our other finalists and special congrats to the 170 from Aynor. It was really cool for our family to see my nephew coaching him to a title. Congrats to all that made to finals weekend!

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The bad thing for the 152 is that the ref was holding backs to award if he rolled back through.  Definitely not screwed tho.  Rock Hill parent  has a photo of a clear pin and you can tell the ref didn’t want to call it because he was pinned for several seconds before it was called. 

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45 was pretty inconsistent as it pertains to stall/stalemates and when the refs were calling each. Basically, Woodmont was dinged with a 2nd stall giving up a point on what seemed like a quick one to make it 3-3 and Lexington escaped shortly thereafter. Woodmont rode forever and had several situations where stall calls would have been warranted, but in the situation where it was called it seemed forced by the ref. A really good scrap that probably deserved an OT to figure out. 

52 was one of the crazier things I've seen in a big match like that. JTW is right from what I was able to see and what I heard, don't think the refs missed it and actually gave him a decent bit of time to recover. RH kid for sure put him there and held him there. Again, it was just wild and almost surreal. He was legitimately one kick off or belly out from the tech. Tough way to go out for a kid who is really good and arguably had the best resume this year of any SC kid. A lot of wrestling left in his future if I had to guess tho. 

JTW, I didn't see that 52 semi but I believe it. Official Situational Confusion should be a medical condition. 

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16 minutes ago, ParTerre57 said:

45 was pretty inconsistent as it pertains to stall/stalemates and when the refs were calling each. Basically, Woodmont was dinged with a 2nd stall giving up a point on what seemed like a quick one to make it 3-3 and Lexington escaped shortly thereafter. Woodmont rode forever and had several situations where stall calls would have been warranted, but in the situation where it was called it seemed forced by the ref. A really good scrap that probably deserved an OT to figure out. 

52 was one of the crazier things I've seen in a big match like that. JTW is right from what I was able to see and what I heard, don't think the refs missed it and actually gave him a decent bit of time to recover. RH kid for sure put him there and held him there. Again, it was just wild and almost surreal. He was legitimately one kick off or belly out from the tech. Tough way to go out for a kid who is really good and arguably had the best resume this year of any SC kid. A lot of wrestling left in his future if I had to guess tho. 

JTW, I didn't see that 52 semi but I believe it. Official Situational Confusion should be a medical condition. 

Agree, he should of had a 2nd stall called regardless, but about 20-30 seconds earlier when Kilcrease was on his feet for about 10 seconds before going out of bounds.  It was more about when the ref called it, but either way he deserved a 2nd stall for a penalty point.

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I didn't see any of the matches, so take what I say with that grain of salt. However, if the 152 was up with a score of 13-1, and had earned three more back points (theoretical tech fall) and was "just going for the pin," then unless the rules have been changed, he shouldn't have been able to lose the match except by flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct. If I'm up by 15 points and then pin myself, then I still win. It's actually pretty straightforward in the rule book, and that's something that shouldn't get messed up with so many other educated officials standing by. Personally, I'm a lot more forgiving of mistakes where there's at least some level of judgement concerned, but officials shouldn't be messing up straight rule applications when judgement isn't an issue. Someone should have stepped in and fixed it. 

*All of this is a moot point if the 5-second count hadn't been reached before the pin, or if the score didn't create a tech fall.

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Sorry, I did give bad information.  I was sent the video just now.  I don’t know how to share on here but NFHS will have it on demand this week.  

4 count right before the ref calls the pin.   My apologies.  It is clear in the video and I think the NFHS will have a better angle 

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2 hours ago, Only_Avg said:

I didn't see any of the matches, so take what I say with that grain of salt. However, if the 152 was up with a score of 13-1, and had earned three more back points (theoretical tech fall) and was "just going for the pin," then unless the rules have been changed, he shouldn't have been able to lose the match except by flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct. If I'm up by 15 points and then pin myself, then I still win. It's actually pretty straightforward in the rule book, and that's something that shouldn't get messed up with so many other educated officials standing by. Personally, I'm a lot more forgiving of mistakes where there's at least some level of judgement concerned, but officials shouldn't be messing up straight rule applications when judgement isn't an issue. Someone should have stepped in and fixed it. 

*All of this is a moot point if the 5-second count hadn't been reached before the pin, or if the score didn't create a tech fall.

Not considered a TF until the points are actually scored.  At that point he still had him in a pinning position, but he was also pinning himself.  The fall was called prior to the 3 pt. NF being given.  As long as the positions don't change it's the right call, if he would have twisted around for a reversal and had Starks on his back, then they would have stopped the match because the 3 NF gets recorded first before the reversal.

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Although it appears that this situation was different than what I previously feared (see JTW above), the points don't actually have to be scored, they just have to be EARNED. If I am up by 12 points, and have you in a tilt for a full 5 count, and have EARNED my 3pt nearfall, and then get pinned while you are still on your back, then I win the match by tech fall. According to the rule book once I've earned the 15 point lead I can only lose through flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct. However, if I only have a 14 point lead, there's all sorts of way for me to lose the match, which is what appears to have happened here.

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OK, I've seen a clip of the end of the 152 match, and I'm pretty certain that there wasn't a 5 count before the fall was called. Makes me feel better about my former brethren in stripes.

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